NBA Discussion Thread

[K-Nice if ur Nasty]

I bet Lebron still gets booed in Boston more.

[jaydee74]

I think that's a given but with the added presence of Ray Allen to that team, Boston is going to hate the Miami Heat more than they ever hated the Los Angeles Lakers.

[jaydee74]

Looks like Jeremy Lin is off to Houston. Thoughts? Did New York screw the pooch on that? Lamar Odom is now a Clipper along with a few other people and where the hell is Dwight Howard going to end up?

[Rath99]

Clipppers look good!

Don't know about Lin. He did well without Melo but not so well when he came back. With the Knicks luck he will be a solid player.

[jaydee74]

Well, I really think that depends on how the Rockets construct their offense. If they work with Lin and his game, I think the Rockets could be pretty decent. The Clippers on the other hand are looking amazing. I'm kind of pumped to see them play this year.

[Paroxysm]

Lebron James has "The decision"

Dwight Howard has "The indecision"

[jaydee74]

Lebron James has "The decision"

Dwight Howard has "The indecision"

I have heard that a lot and it's still funny every time someone says it. Mostly because it's true.

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketbal ... 6384.story


IT BEGINS. WE NOW HOLD A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR THE REST OF THE NBA, ESPECIALLY THE WESTERN CONFERENCE.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGmAmJFUvzM


Holy shit this will be an interesting season. I'm happy and hope Dwight actually likes this team and plays as well as he can. He's a talented player, now he has a good team to show case this talent on.

[jaydee74]

Holy Crap! Lakers look STRONG! Take that Miami!

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

This does seem interesting though: People hated on Dwight for the indecision, and people hated on LeBron for the decision, now what are people going to do if these two teams become the dominant forces in the league? Add that Dwight, who is disliked, is one a team with Nash, who people like.


I smell an ensuing shitstorm and a whole lotta butthurt.





I blame Stern and Thunder. You can see the point at which Mitch snaps and decides to make the Thunder and the League suffer.



"They will pay for their basketball reasons".

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

"There's a storm coming, Mr. James. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us."





Waaaay too much time on hands sometimes...

[jaydee74]

Good lord, get a hobby. Watch some television. Go outside!

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

B-b-but outside is a scary place. It has girls. And girls have cooties.

[jaydee74]

B-b-but outside is a scary place. It has girls. And girls have cooties.

They only have cooties between the ages of 5 and 10. I think. I don't really remember. It was a long time ago that I had that thought.

Anyway, I will be really excited to see the Lakers and the Clippers get it on. I am hoping for some intense games between those two.

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

B-b-but outside is a scary place. It has girls. And girls have cooties.

They only have cooties between the ages of 5 and 10. I think. I don't really remember. It was a long time ago that I had that thought.

Anyway, I will be really excited to see the Lakers and the Clippers get it on. I am hoping for some intense games between those two.

But yeah, the games will be very interesting. The Lakers have essentially turned themselves into the Yankees of basketball with such a stacked line-up. Their bench is pretty damn good too.

[jaydee74]

Well, I wouldn't sneeze at the team the Clippers put together during the off-season. They got some decent players including Lamar Odom who I would imagine is going to have something to prove when he goes up against his former team.

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

ANTI-FLOPPING RULES!

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/84572 ... ne-players

For those not wanting to deal with the autoplaying vid

The NBA will penalize floppers this season, fining players for repeated violations of an act a league official said has "no place in our game."

Those exaggerated falls to the floor might fool the referees and fans during the game, but officials at league headquarters plan to take a look for themselves afterward.

Players will get a warning the first time, then be fined $5,000 for a second violation. The fines increase to $10,000 for a third offense, $15,000 for a fourth and $30,000 for the fifth. Six or more could lead to a suspension.

"Flops have no place in our game -- they either fool referees into calling undeserved fouls or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call," vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson said in a statement. "Accordingly, both the Board of Governors and the competition committee felt strongly that any player who the league determines, following video review, to have committed a flop should -- after a warning -- be given an automatic penalty."


Hours after the league announced the new penalties, the National Basketball Players Association said it planned to file a grievance with the NBA and an unfair labor practice charge with the National Labor Relations Board.

"The NBA is not permitted to unilaterally impose new economic discipline against the players without first bargaining with the union," NBPA executive director Billy Hunter said in a statement. "We believe that any monetary penalty for an act of this type is inappropriate and without precedent in our sport or any other sport.

"We will bring appropriate legal action to challenge what is clearly a vague and arbitrary overreaction and overreach by the Commissioner's office."

Sources with knowledge of the talks told ESPN.com that the union and the league have discussed flopping several times, and agree generally that flopping ought to be punished. Where they differ is in the structure of the program and the size of the punishments, which the union sees as harsh.

The NBA does not expect the union's legal challenges to have a big effect on the anti-flopping program.

"Although we haven't seen any filing from the Players' Association," league spokesman Tim Frank said, "our adoption of an anti-flopping rule is fully consistent with our rights and obligations under the collective bargaining agreement and the law."

Despite the union's plans, several high-profile players voiced their support of the new rule. Lakers star Kobe Bryant said he hopes it has an impact on the game.

"I like the rule," he said. "Shameless flopping, that's a chump move. We're familiar with it. Vlade (Divac) kind of pioneered it in that playoff series against Shaq, and it kind of worked for him."

Players cautioned it would be difficult to completely eliminate flopping but welcomed the attempt to try.

"It's good. Guys can't be flopping and get away with it anymore," Oklahoma City guard James Harden said. "It was bound to happen at some point. Obviously, the league got fed up with it and they put it in. I'm happy they did."

"I think guys will still play the game the way they're accustomed to playing it," New York Knicks forward Amare Stoudemire told ESPNNewYork.com. "But we do want to have a clean game when you play basketball."

Los Angeles Clippers forward Blake Griffin has been accused of flopping by opponents but didn't think the rule necessarily applied to him or the Clippers.

"I guess it's good in the sense that it stops any of that from happening, but at the same time, you're telling me if it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals and a guy has a chance to make a play, he's going to be like, 'Well, do I want this $10,000 or do I want a championship?' Do you know what I mean?" Griffin said. "It's one of those things that's after the fact and not going to win or lose games for anybody."

The NBA said flopping will be defined as "any physical act that appears to have been intended to cause the referees to call a foul on another player."

"The primary factor in determining whether a player committed a flop is whether his physical reaction to contact with another player is inconsistent with what would reasonably be expected given the force or direction of the contact," the league said.

Commissioner David Stern long has sought to end flopping, believing it tricks the referees. But the league determined it would be too difficult for refs to make the call on the floor, preferring instead to leave it to league office reviews.

Jackson's department already reviews flagrant-foul penalties to determine whether they should be upgraded or downgraded.

"I'm all on board for it," Heat coach Erik Spoelstra said. "I think it needs to be addressed. I think the steps they're taking right now, I think will benefit the game. I do. It remains to be seen if it truly has an impact. But I think it's a step in the right direction.

"It's not good for the game; nobody likes the flop. A majority of coaches don't like the flop, particularly if you're trying to build a solid defense."

Rasheed Wallace raged against it for years, picking up quite a few of his 308 technical fouls for arguing when he thought he was called for a foul because a player flopped. After ending a two-year retirement to join the New York Knicks, he said certain unnamed players were going to be in trouble and agreed penalties need to be enforced.

"Hey, you all thought I was crazy for saying it over the last so-and-so years. I ain't even gonna get into it, but yes," he said. "They needed to bend on that."

The blame for the rise in flopping is often aimed at the international players, such as Divac, who came to the NBA after growing up watching soccer, in which falling down in hopes of drawing a foul is part of the game. Denver's Danilo Gallinari, an Italian, believes that's unfair.

"I don't know why everybody just talks about European flopping," he said. "I don't know where this thing comes from. We flop as much as other players all around the world flop. I don't know why everybody keeps saying that Europeans are soft or Europeans flop. I don't know."

Cleveland's Anderson Varejao is a renowned flopper, once one of the targets of Wallace's wrath. But he said he's a changed man now.

"I'm not flopping anymore," he said Monday with a smile. "I used to flop a little bit."

The league said it will announce a separate set of flopping penalties for the playoffs at a later date.

Shane Battier made an interesting comment concerning this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

Last week, when the NBA announced plans to fine players for flopping, the reaction was almost uniformly positive. Fans don't like flopping, what with its foundations in deception, and any attempt to combat it seemed like a good idea. While I have doubts that any flopping policy can be enforced effectively, I also understand why the NBA felt the need to do something. It's an unpopular practice that they want to curtail any way they can.

Players and coaches have also been pleased by the news. However, Miami Heat forward Shane Battier, known as one of basketball best charge-taking defenders during his four years at Duke and 11 NBA seasons, is not so pleased with the idea. From Tom Haberstroh for ESPN.com's Heat Index:

Shane Battier doesn't agree that it's a win for the league. When asked about the new measures to try to combat flopping, Battier delivered an impromptu speech for surrounding reporters. The only thing that was missing was a podium and a campaign banner.

"There's a myriad of issues where you could dissect this proposed rule," Battier said. "There's not a consensus on what a flop is. How much force constitutes a flop? Is a basketball person making that decision? Is an administrative person making that decision? How much is the fine going to be? There's a very gray area. I still maintain that offensive flopping has to be penalizing, too. Let's call it both ways." [...]

"The unfortunate thing about the block/charge [distinction] is that I've had many, many times where a ref told me that you have to go to the floor to get the call. By the letter of the law, I've taken a hit, but I've stood on my feet. Even though I've gotten nailed, the ref calls it a no-call. I say, 'Ref, what's wrong with that [charge]?' He says, 'You have to go down to get the call.'

"Inherently, there's something wrong with that."

Battier and I share reservations that it's usually extremely difficult to distinguish between a flop and a legitimate foul, but the really interesting point here is that refs have told him that he must fall to the ground to earn a call for an offensive foul. Henry Abbott of TrueHoop, the most prominent and most active crusader against flopping on the Internet, discusses what that means to the refs' credibility:

Now, you might wonder why a referee would do something like that. Here's my best guess: Credibility matters a lot in their jobs. They need to be seen as making good calls. Call a charge on a guy who knocked somebody down, and you're seen as sensible. Call a charge after some contact on a drive which didn't send a body flying, and we all know what happens next: commentators, fans, everybody is screaming to "let them play."

Make a lot of calls that look funny on television, and it quickly becomes very tough to earn a reputation as a great referee. [...]

So if referees want to make calls that look sensible to the people at home, I could see that it would be helpful for a fouled player to make himself look like a player fouled hard. I get how we got here.

Henry makes a good point that referees have to think of their own job security and reputations (even if largely subconsciously), but he also seems to believe that these foul calls are relatively easy to officiate. Based on what Battier says here, it seems as if the referees are telling him that he must hit the floor in part so they can more clearly notice the contact, not just so it looks more like a foul to the audience. In actuality, the block/charge distinction is one of the most difficult plays to call in the NBA. And while I highly doubt that Battier falls to the ground merely because he was asked, or because of some higher devotion to ultimate truth, he is selling legitimate contact rather than fabricating it wholesale.

Embellishment stretches the truth, but it doesn't necessarily obscure it. When a woman wears lipstick, she paints her lips a different color, but she also brings attention to the lips that are already there. It's deception that reveals an underlying truth, not a pure lie. Similarly, when a player falls to the floor after contact, he's not faking the contact.

Many very smart people believe that this is a flop and that it should be fined, but not everyone believes that to be the case. If the NBA gets into the habit of fining players for this sort of embellishment, they better legislate it fairly across the board. We'll just have to find out if such a plan is feasible.

And some more good stuff on this.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... de-me-flop




I have to agree with Battier but at the same time, I'm glad something is being done. I wish they would bring back the old rules. I do think it's interesting that Manu Ginobili is thinking of retiring with this coming out. I'm sure there is no correlation. None at all.

[jaydee74]

I simply don't think the repercussions are harsh enough. The first time is a warning. The second time is $5,000. A bet Kobe spends that much money on one outfit. It's the sixth time you do it that you could get suspended. That's stupid. I heard someone say why not have punishments like technical fouls for flopping or take away a time-out for your team or something harsher to really make these players think twice about doing it. Have you seen some of these videos of flopping that are being shown when talking about these new rules? It's disgraceful and these players should be embarrassed.

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

I simply don't think the repercussions are harsh enough. The first time is a warning. The second time is $5,000. A bet Kobe spends that much money on one outfit. It's the sixth time you do it that you could get suspended. That's stupid. I heard someone say why not have punishments like technical fouls for flopping or take away a time-out for your team or something harsher to really make these players think twice about doing it. Have you seen some of these videos of flopping that are being shown when talking about these new rules? It's disgraceful and these players should be embarrassed.

Totally agree. I like Battier's analysis of the issue but I think harsher repercussions are needed as well. I can see the bigger name players flopping, especially come play-off time.

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

lol Lakers. I know they needed an adjustment period but hot damn. And Barkley is right when he says he want his accountants from Princeton, not his offense. The Lakers need to shape-up or ship out. I have to wonder if the lack of Bynum is taking its toll or something all together.

[Rath99]

lol Lakers. I know they needed an adjustment period but hot damn. And Barkley is right when he says he want his accountants from Princeton, not his offense. The Lakers need to shape-up or ship out. I have to wonder if the lack of Bynum is taking its toll or something all together.

2 GAMES!!! Give me a break. Remember year one of the Heat? I'm no fan of the offense but it has been proven to work in the NBA. Lack of Bynum taking it's toll?? Wade you've said some crazy stuff in the past but that is one sentence I never thought I would hear from you lol. Read it again to make sure you weren't possessed when you wrote it

[K-Nice if ur Nasty]

Remember when Bynum was jackin' 3's? LULZ.

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

lol Lakers. I know they needed an adjustment period but hot damn. And Barkley is right when he says he want his accountants from Princeton, not his offense. The Lakers need to shape-up or ship out. I have to wonder if the lack of Bynum is taking its toll or something all together.

2 GAMES!!! Give me a break. Remember year one of the Heat? I'm no fan of the offense but it has been proven to work in the NBA. Lack of Bynum taking it's toll?? Wade you've said some crazy stuff in the past but that is one sentence I never thought I would hear from you lol. Read it again to make sure you weren't possessed when you wrote it

I know I know, calm down, I was more wondering out loud than anything. However, I do think they are simply going through an adjustment period like I said. I do think that their current offense does not suit their talents and they would be dangerous utilizing another but I think they will eventually get this one down.


Also, Harden seems to be working out where he is but I really want to see what he can do against a good team. I'm not doubting him but I want to see what happens when they are being really tested. I think one thing that is helping him out: He actually has a true point guard in Lin. I don't think Lin is as good as people have made him out to be but he is effective and gets the job done, which is all one can ask for in a point guard. In the end, if this continues to work out, one can't fault OKC for offering what they did as opposed to the Rockets because each team not only had different money issues to work with but each one offered him what he was worth to the team given each team's set-up and needs. In the end, it will prove interesting to see how much better the Rockets will be this year.

[Dr. Wade McNasty]

I know there are more important things to talk about but really now....

Dat hair. What was Bynum thinking?

[jaydee74]

I can't believe the Lakers are 3-5. I can't believe they didn't bring in Phil Jackson. More than anything else though, I can't believe the Knicks are 5-0.