Batman

[Batman25JM]

I'm not creating the problems. I fully believe that there are huge problems, and I'm not the only one. I want to like this. The idea of Bruce having to fight his own brother is intriguing, but the way it was done was not acceptable to me..

We're talking about a character/origin that was created 73 years ago. Comics are unique in the sense that they're the longest continuing story of any medium, but if someone comes up with an interesting twist that may not coincide 100% with a story 3/4 of a century old should they not be allowed to tell it? Or can we allow for alittle bit of massaging to add a brand new layer of depth to a character?

Trust me, I understand love and loyalty to a character. But I think we should let Snyder tell his story before we immediately condemn it.

I can handle working new things in, but this just doesn't work for me. I don't think it's been done in a way that makes good sense. Now, something could change and explain things better, but as it is I don't think it works.

[D-Rock]

And also..

I'm not creating the problems. I fully believe that there are huge problems, and I'm not the only one.

I'm sure the interwebz are on fire over Bruce having a brother. I imagine it looks something like this..

[Aussiemandias]

I still think it's way too early to judge this. We don't know for certain that Lincoln Marsh is who he says or thinks he is. Even if he is who he thinks he is, I'm still going with the idea that the Waynes thought he was dead for some reason. Is it possible that someone other than the Waynes was paying for his time at the home? Alfred's dad perhaps (or even the Court of Owls)? Even perhaps making it appear the Waynes were paying for it but instead it wasn't them?

I'm throwing this out there - Alfred's dad is clearly going to be blaming himself for this car accident. What if Martha's baby comes early as a result of the trauma of the accident and Jarvis delivers it to discover the baby is damaged? Blaming himself he leads the Waynes to believe the baby died but instead places him in the home and secretly either pays for the child's care or siphons the money from the Waynes. Anyway, something like this could explain a few things that are people are having trouble with.

[Batman25JM]

^Even then I would think that Bruce would have known that he had a younger brother that died.

I do kind of want Lincoln March to actually be Thomas Wayne Jr., but I want things cleaned up a bit. If not this will always bug me.

[Aussiemandias]

^Even then I would think that Bruce would have known that he had a younger brother that died.

I don't know about that. This is all conjecture of course but it could be something his parents never talked about because it was painful. Remember he's about 3 years old - if they never discussed it between that point and when they died he wouldn't know at all. I think it would be perfectly normal not to discuss with a really young child that their mother had a baby that died during child birth - something you might wait until they were older to talk about. I also think that would provide a reason why Alfred never mentioned it either.

[Batman25JM]

^Even then I would think that Bruce would have known that he had a younger brother that died.

I don't know about that. This is all conjecture of course but it could be something his parents never talked about because it was painful. Remember he's about 3 years old - if they never discussed it between that point and when they died he wouldn't know at all. I think it would be perfectly normal not to discuss with a really young child that their mother had a baby that died during child birth - something you might wait until they were older to talk about. I also think that would provide a reason why Alfred never mentioned it either.

I just don't think that the only way that Bruce would find out would be his parents telling him. Martha's pregnancy would be public knowledge, and so would the baby's death. If his parents didn't tell him a kid at school could have told him (when he was a little older than 3). Even if Bruce didn't find out as a kid, I can't fathom how he wouldn't have found out as an adult. I think it would have come up, especially when he was looking into his parents' murder. I think the attack where his unborn brother was killed would have come to his attention in his research.

I also don't see how Jarvis could have the means or ability to fake Thomas Jr.'s death. How exactly would he get the body away without Martha seeing it? Even if she was knocked unconscious, they'd want to see a body eventually. I don't think Jarvis would have the ability to sneak away with a live baby and return with another baby's dead body.

[Arsenal]

I don't think there is any way that Bruce didn't know that his mother was pregnant. Even if he forgot as he was 3, there would have been pictures, or something around. Bruce would know that there was a baby and that it died.

[Aussiemandias]

All fair points. I still think some kind of cover up has gone on. I guess we're just going to have to wait and see. How this plays out is kind of a big moment for Snyder.

[Arsenal]

When DC's "New 52" launched last year, the Joker may have lost his face, but that doesn't mean he's done tormenting Bruce Wayne.

In October's Batman #13, Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo will kick off a Joker storyline titled "Death of the Family," utilizing the villain in what DC has announced is a "dark, horrifying, unnerving" way.

The Joker storyline is expected to spill over into other Bat-family titles, as DC revealed that "the grave consequences of his reemergence will be felt by not only the Bat-family, but by all of Gotham City."

"Joker is my favorite villain of all time,” Snyder revealed today. “Not just in comics. In everything - film, books, TV. He's the greatest, hands down. So this story is something extremely important and personal to me - something I've been building in my head ever since I started working in Gotham."

“When Scott told me that he'd written a Joker story for our next arc, I couldn’t contain my excitement,” added Capullo. “Talk about a dream come true! For me, the Joker is the ultimate rogue and the villain I most wanted to draw. I gotta tell you, after hearing what the story is about, this isn't a dream come true. It's a nightmare! A macabre and bloody, flesh crawling nightmare. We hope you'll have the nerve to face what's coming. Warning: It ain't for the faint of heart!”

"Death of the Family" will bring back Joker after the character appeared briefly in Detective Comics #1 in September 2011. However, in that issue, the character had his face literally removed at the end of the issue, and has not been seen again in the New 52 universe.

Now that he's returned, he presumably has a very different face.

"Wait 'til you see him," Snyder said. "Greg's sketches literally gave me chills. Point blank: This is Joker like you've never seen him before. He has a mission. He has a secret. And he has a serious axe to grind with Batman. It isn't going to be pretty, but it's going to be a wild ride."

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/the-jok ... amily.html


Well I have loved Syder's Batman so far and a big Joker story is always fun, So I am excited for this.

[D-Rock]

I didn't read the articles because I'm avoiding spoilers, but that's an awesome picture

[Arsenal]

I don't think there were any spoilers in the article. But nothing of real importance outside what I quoted.

That picture is awesome.

[Aussiemandias]

I just watched a re-run of an old Batman episode. Those shows are usually nuts but this took the cake! The Joker had concocted some plan where he kidnapped this world champion surfer and transferred his surfing abilities (via some machine) into him. In the Joker's words - "First the surfing championships, then Gotham, then the world!!!!". Whaaaaaaat?????

Commission Gordon and the Chief undercover down at the beach was hilarious too.

Anyway, I wonder if Snyder has something like this up his sleeve for this big Joker story?

[jaydee74]

Batman #11
I really enjoyed the final of this story. I liked the action and the dialogue. I think Scott Snyder writes an amazing Batman. I think the ending with the interaction between Bruce and Dick was very cool and sometimes funny. I'm looking forward to see where all of this goes from here. The backup was okay.

[Batman25JM]

Batman #11

I enjoyed this. The conversation with Dick at the end was stellar.

This issue cleaned up the majority of my problems with the reveal in issue #10. I'll admit that I jumped the gun a bit when complaining about the Thomas Wayne Jr. reveal. I just had some issues with how it was presented. I think this story will read much better for me now that I know how it ends. I also think it'll read better in one sitting.

[Arsenal]

I liked how they wrapped it up, the DIck and Bruce moments from Snyder are great. But having Bruce basically say, I don't see this being true and here is why was very well done, and not having him pull out a DNA test he ran the first time he met Marsh was good, because it cleared the air, but left it open in a way that it can be touched upon later with out a retcon.

[jaydee74]

I so hope this isn't the last we've seen of Lincoln March.

[Aussiemandias]

Batman #11

Enjoyed this plus the art was stellar.

I liked how they wrapped it up, the DIck and Bruce moments from Snyder are great. But having Bruce basically say, I don't see this being true and here is why was very well done, and not having him pull out a DNA test he ran the first time he met Marsh was good, because it cleared the air, but left it open in a way that it can be touched upon later with out a retcon.

What I liked is that Bruce's reasons for doubting Lincoln March's claims were pretty much the same as ours. At the end of the day, he doesn't really know what the truth is but chooses to believe that Lincoln March is wrong. I like that and it maintains a mystery that writers can have fun with into the future.

I so hope this isn't the last we've seen of Lincoln March.

There's no chance it's the last we've seen of him. No body. Plus he pretty much can't die.

Man, that Lincoln March does not shut up. This issue he just went on and on and on. In fact, if I had one criticism I thought his dialogue was a little over the top and got a bit tiresome after a while. I don't think March's stuff was necessarily Snyder's best work so far this series.

And it was kind of sad that Alfred never got see that letter his father wrote to him.

[Denim]

Issue 12 was amazing, my one complaint is that Cloonan should of stayed the artist for the whole issue. Loved her style and the shift in art distracted me a bit.

[Aussiemandias]

Interesting. I thought issue #12 was terrible. Have to agree too - the change in artist was completely weird - did not do the book any favours at all (Becky Cloonan's art was just fine and suited the tone of the issue).

I just found the writing this issue to be trying too hard. It's hard to explain but it just felt to be coming on too strong to me (Snyder's efforts to make Harper funny and quirky and clever and tough just felt so forced to me). The whole technological reasons behind this issue didn't sit well with me either. I know it's fantasy but rather than this elaborate stuff with the power grid wouldn't some sort of jamming signal being produced by Batman from his costume make a lot more sense. Also Snyder's dialogue is starting to bug me a little bit - every now and then he comes out with this big bits of dialogue that don't feel like anything someone would say, they almost feel out of place in the moment. I guess it's his approach to exposition but it's just something I've started to notice with him.

Other people might have liked this but it didn't work for me at all.

[Batman25JM]

I liked issue #12. I had a discussion with some friends about the possibility of Harper becoming Oracle (or an Oracle like character). I could see that happening.

I liked Cloonan's art quite a bit, and for some reason I didn't find the transition in art to be jarring.

[jaydee74]

I liked issue #12. I had a discussion with some friends about the possibility of Harper becoming Oracle (or an Oracle like character). I could see that happening.

I liked Cloonan's art quite a bit, and for some reason I didn't find the transition in art to be jarring.

Agreed 100% with everything you said. I thought the art was actually really good throughout and not jarring at all. I could see Harper becoming maybe an Oracle type but I was thinking she might be more like Harold since I got the sense she might be good at building things.

[Arsenal]

I liked issue #12. I had a discussion with some friends about the possibility of Harper becoming Oracle (or an Oracle like character). I could see that happening.

I liked Cloonan's art quite a bit, and for some reason I didn't find the transition in art to be jarring.

Agreed 100% with everything you said. I thought the art was actually really good throughout and not jarring at all. I could see Harper becoming maybe an Oracle type but I was thinking she might be more like Harold since I got the sense she might be good at building things.

Oh Harold.... I forgot about him, maybe I was a terrible person but I always just called him Igor.

[jaydee74]

I'm sure you're not the only one.

[jaydee74]

Batman #0
The main story was good but the back-up story is what really intrigued me.

[Batman25JM]

I liked #0 a lot, but it causes continuity problems. First of all, they said when the New 52 launched that Batman had been operating for 10 years, but in this we see that he's only been Batman for 6 years max. And the backup causes a lot of headaches with the Robins. They all had to serve within like 5 years (more like 4 once you include Damian). Also, they all looked to be about the same age.

New 52 continuity continues to piss me off.